Need help promoting solar!

Unfortunately the answer is there is no simple answer. Utilities around the US have been raising and lowering their rates for years. Each one is different from the other so looking for a fix % is almost impossible.

On top of that while there has been a lot of discussion concerning the value of a solar pv system added to the home value, the answers have shown inconclusive with some places showing an increase in value and other places showing no desire of the home to be purchased because of the solar.

So unfortunately you will not be able to find an easy accurate way of really knowing what the future savings will be. The best you can do is use some estimate.

Agreed. Some general background info on elec. rate increases and some prelim. stuff on LCOE (levelized cost of electricity) which is usually part of a serious cost analysis for equipment can be found on the NREL website, which is a good source for a lot of stuff dealing with alternate energy.

As with Suneagle, a lot of what you are looking for can't be quantified. What there is also takes a bit of digging and rooting around to form an opinion, with hard answers perhaps simply not available due to the nature of the beast.

1. The economic benefits will depend on rebates / tax incentives / how much you produce / how much the electric company buys your over production back for.

2. 2 or 3% is probably a decent number to use. take a look at your POCO's website and see if they have a histogram or something to show you how much they have increased. How much it is in reality will obviously vary by region and POCO.

3. Have no idea if there is an online calculator that does what you want. if there is someone will chime in with a link.

4. Not really. I was told my home value would increase by the cost of the system. I took that with a grain of salt. Personally I am betting 75% or so more than that will be a pleasent surprise. with the housing marking bouncing around like an out of control pin ball it is hard to say and certainly not with any certainty. you home will sell for what you can convince someone it is worth, and how much someone will pay extra for your solar system will depend on how much they want it.

when I sell my house I will be able to show them a few years worth of bills both pre solar and post solar that will show a zero bill for most of the post solar time I am betting I won't have much of a problem getting my value added

EIA tracks utility rate info back to 1990.



Appraised value is tough to say nail down. I depends largely on the appraiser engaged and comparable sales (if available). That said, many appraisers are using the this calculator as a starting point for their valuation.



You may also find the PV Watts calculator beneficial for production info.

Thanks for the help guys.
And thanks for the links Eemloanguy!
I have used PVWatts before but the electric price spreadsheet and the pv value website will be very helpful.

Even with the tax credit, most places don't have a payback point once all expenses are considered. I think you need to have costs above 15 cents a Kwh and installed solar below $3 a watt. Some electric companies have additional incentives, and at some point you might be able to sell solar 'credits' which is still viable in some states (I don't believe in Kansas though)
There is also a problem in the calculating as many electric companies are itemizing their bills so there is a 'line fee' which is separate from the energy costs, My local COOP charges $25 a month and had plans on increasing this before the downward turn of the economy, so I suspect it's likely to go up.

I suspect many Power Companies will do this when requesting their next 'increase' as we've seen in AZ and NM. So the increase will be effective to both grid tied solar as well as people just drawing off the grid.

There is residual value to the solar panels which is rarely taken into account, I have some 34 year old Photowatt panels still producing around 80% of their rated value. I agree that the system have detractors as well as attractions for many people, like a net negative on the pool of people interested in purchasing, but likely to attract some buyers...

This was a diy installation so my installed cost was only $1.75/watt and my payback time is only about 12 years, But even if I had paid someone to install the system I would still have a payback time of 20 years. That is with $0.10/kWh electricity costs and does not even include annual price increases for electricity purchased from my utility.
These systems work for 3 or more decades so in most cases the initial cost will be paid back, it's just a matter of how soon.

They are a great deal if you plan on staying in your home for that long. Other people (like me) don't plan to be in this house much more and with a total billing of about $0.15/kWh and the lack of any State incentives it makes it real hard to justify.

Maybe I'll put a system on my retirement home.

Most power companies won't allow DIY installs, mine actually does as well! (So long as the inverter is installed by a licensed electrician)

Not pulling your string, but have you added the cost of insurance? Replacing electronics every 10 years? Added cost of reroofing? Cost of money that could have been invested elsewhere or the cost of borrowing the money? (5% of $10,000 is $500)

Indeed if your not including the cost of money, you might consider that a wash with the increased cost of grid power, though as I said before I suspect Grid tie will become more expensive as electric companies wind ways of charging for the infrastructure.

Just want a real look at the costs, I'm doing Off Grid cheaper than anyone I've heard, but I'm still around 23-25 cents a Kwh, not counting the cost of money, self insured (It's damaged in a hail storm, or burn the place down, it's on me! but an mortgage company wouldn't let you do this)Though I do figure replacing the Battery every 15 years(forklift battery) and electronics CC and inverter every 10 years. Though I don't include the tax credit in these figures.

My insurance company automatically covers the array under our plan. You might have to increase your total insured value in case of a total loss, but I did not because we were already over insured due to recent drops in home values.
No added cost there.

I used Enphase micro inverters which come with a 15 year warranty, but even if every single micro inverter mysteriously failed in year 16 it would only take 2-3 years of electricity savings from the solar array to cover the added costs.

My roof was redone 2 years ago with hail resistant shingles. They should last as long as the solar array.
No added costs there.

Interest is a big waste of money. I live well within my means so I did not have to take out a loan.
No added costs there.

Investing? Hmm... This one is a little tougher. I own plenty of stocks: Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Sun Power, Tesla... just to name a few. My returns will most likely be much higher on these stocks but they are also a much riskier investment. This solar array will produce a constant stream of growing revenue for over 3 decades. I think a CD would be a more appropriate investment to compare it to.

I ran the numbers and a CD earning a generous 2% rate on an initial $10,000 would become $18,000 after 30 years. (I chose $10,000 because my solar array cost $9800.)
$8000 profit taxed at 20% equals $6400 profit.

My solar array will generate $24,500 of income in 30 years. This assumes a conservative 2% annual increase in energy costs. $14,700 profit. No tax. If I reinvest the monthly income in a CD I can add another $5000 to $10,000 to that total.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't include the 30% federal tax credit in your calculations.

I did the calculations to show how cheaply off grid solar can be done, The US's federal tax credit means nothing to much of the audience on the WWW. I frequent a different forum(NAWS), with several Canadians as well as a contributors from across the world.

Really just started back here a bit to find info on Heart Akerson's Transverter. Looks like it has features that will be needed in a 'smart' grid connected systems and has several features that would be very nice for Off Grid, modular, supports different battery voltages, so people could expand systems much more readily.

I suspect we live in a false economy, the Fed has and continues(cut back a bit) to flood the economy with capital, at some point this will trickle down to higher inflation, and interest rates when the money flow is restricted. Indeed I see it as a paper plane headed for a wall...

Looks like you are using the rate of increase vs cost of money as a wash if you back out the 2% increase in energy costs. Don't believe either 2% is generous or conservative just a guess, either of both could dramatically change and might well do so in harmony.

From 2007 to 2012 average electricity prices in the U.S. Increased by 7% annually.
Taking global warming into consideration and the new carbon regulations being put on coal burning power plants I believe 2% is a very conservative estimate for future annual electricity cost increases.

I do agree with you though that power companies will find ways to pass more of these costs on to solar customers by increasing fees instead of increasing their kWh rates.

7% - What green sites do you read? That is totally wrong and you will find more accurate numbers here.

The coal burning regulations won't last long I don't think - it is a bit stupid to export coal to China for them to burn while the US ends up with more expensive power.