Liquid Metal batteries? More voodoo? or perhaps part of a bigger picture...

**russ** · 10-26-2014, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by kwilcox

http://www.ambri.com/technology/Grid defection is going to be a very real thing in the near future. POCOs need to embrace this with affordable storage solutions and a smart grid that can autonomously store and release energy IMHO or they will face a death spiral of defections that will fracture the grid.

http://investor.enphase.com/released...leaseID=877216

The research into batteries is hardly new. The gov and companies have been pouring many millions into it for many years. A tough nut to crack.

Who do you think will use the energy storage and pave the way for the residential customer? The big boys meaning the utilities. They can time shift generation it is a huge thing to them.

Death spiral only in your mind.

**kwilcox** · 10-26-2014, 08:16 PM

I hope you're right Russ. I'm not enthusiastic given WE Energies tactics lately though. They're tossing a whole budding new industry out the door with their draconian tactics. If there's a breakthrough, I'm plugging it in and those disenfranchised renewable installers in SE Wisconsin will too. I was deluged with people asking me about storage solutions at the Rate Case meeting. They're in the same boat. I'd rather see WE Energies selling me storage but they want no part of it. Maybe that will change if a real breakthrough happens. But will it be too late then? Will micro grids already be taking off then? There's a lot of angry people in WI who just want to tell the POCO to stick it where the sun doesn't shine (pun intended).

**russ** · 10-26-2014, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by kwilcox

I hope you're right Russ. I'm not enthusiastic given WE Energies tactics lately though. They're tossing a whole budding new industry out the door with their draconian tactics. If there's a breakthrough, I'm plugging it in and those disenfranchised renewable installers in SE Wisconsin will too. I was deluged with people asking me about storage solutions at the Rate Case meeting. They're in the same boat. I'd rather see WE Energies selling me storage but they want no part of it. Maybe that will change if a real breakthrough happens. But will it be too late then? Will micro grids already be taking off then? There's a lot of angry people in WI who just want to tell the POCO to stick it where the sun doesn't shine (pun intended).

A lot of angry people - the 20 people in a meeting all carrying on?

You guys with your whining about the utilities are cute. The utility will still be in business and doing well long after you are gone - don't worry about them.

Micro grids a big deal? In the mind of the anarchist lot maybe.

**SunEagle** · 10-27-2014, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by russ

A lot of angry people - the 20 people in a meeting all carrying on?

You guys with your whining about the utilities are cute. The utility will still be in business and doing well long after you are gone - don't worry about them.

Micro grids a big deal? In the mind of the anarchist lot maybe.

While I feel the pain for kwilcox wanting to get the Utilities to listen and partner with their customers I don't think the threat of disconnecting will bother them that much. The will just sell it to CA or another state the has to import the electricity.

It is almost the same thinking that people had to "hurt" an oil company by not purchasing their gasoline. What they fail to understand is that the US drivers are not the only customer in the world. If said oil company didn't sell their gas to US drivers they would sell it to someone else, even another oil company.

My dad use to work for Exxon. He told me that at least once a week a tanker from a different oil/gas company would fill up with the gasoline produced at the refinery that my dad worked in. I don't know who finally purchased that gas but trust me when I say if you don't buy it from one company someone else will. The US public will never "hurt" an oil company by not purchasing their gasoline. They will continue to make profits in different ways.

**kwilcox** · 10-31-2014, 01:23 PM

Now Tesla:

http://www.solarcity.com/residential/energy-storage

follow the bouncing ball...

**russ** · 10-31-2014, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by kwilcox

Now Tesla:

http://www.solarcity.com/residential/energy-storage

follow the bouncing ball...

A link that says nothing except they want a cheap lead? If they have anything they should at least say what it is with specs and all.

**SunEagle** · 10-31-2014, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by russ

A link that says nothing except they want a cheap lead? If they have anything they should at least say what it is with specs and all.

Most of those home battery systems that I have researched will provide less than 5kWh of backup power for a steep price. It is a nice idea and may help off set some peak POCO costs or high Tear rates but it is not really a big power supply and generates power in the $1 to $2/kWh range. It would be cheaper to run a small generator.

**russ** · 11-01-2014, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by SunEagle

Most of those home battery systems that I have researched will provide less than 5kWh of backup power for a steep price. It is a nice idea and may help off set some peak POCO costs or high Tear rates but it is not really a big power supply and generates power in the $1 to $2/kWh range. It would be cheaper to run a small generator.

The link is just sucker bait.

**SunEagle** · 11-01-2014, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by russ

The link is just sucker bait.

Oh I agree with you. There are ways to find out more data on those home battery systems where they give a kWh rating and hint at pricing. I still think they continue to look for investors or at least get a number of pre-orders to help fund their manufacturing.

**kwilcox** · 11-01-2014, 11:11 PM

Sucker Bait. Right. You should be getting to know me better than that by now. Check out who is the chairman @ solar city.

http://www.solarcity.com/company/team

I would assume these are built to order. Southern CA only fttb... probably until the factory goes online. I'd say its safe to say that Tesla is getting into the residential energy storage business. Hard to believe with only "20 people in WI" to sell to eh?

**russ** · 11-02-2014, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by kwilcox

Sucker Bait. Right. You should be getting to know me better than that by now. Check out who is the chairman @ solar city.

http://www.solarcity.com/company/team

I would assume these are built to order. Southern CA only fttb... probably until the factory goes online. I'd say its safe to say that Tesla is getting into the residential energy storage business. Hard to believe with only "20 people in WI" to sell to eh?

Kevin - Looked at the list - sucker bait. If they have something then show it with specs - don't just phish for contacts.

Reminds me of the Bloombox - big names and lots of hype for a total loser.

**kwilcox** · 11-02-2014, 09:39 AM

Just like the Tesla model S eh? Just like the Sace X dragon eh? Just like Paypal eh? Trust me Russ, when Elon Musk sets his sights on something, it isn't "Sucker bait".

Disagree that they are phishing for contacts. Solar City has a different business model. You ever don't buy anything from them (see link below). So Its obviously a made to order part of their overall offering at this point in time and if I was living in S. CA then I'd be discussing it with one of their engineers right now. Having a smart storage system is perfect for an AC coupled system such as the SE Conext that can't control charge rate when energy is moving backwards through the inverter.

By announcing nationwide availability soon, they are also obviously deciding to change their business model and sell the system outright.

Lyndon (solarcity CEO) and Peter (solarcity CTO) Rive are Elon Musk's cousins btw.

Elon Musk-Backed SolarCity Thrives in Solar Power Sector

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/14/elon-musk-backed-solarcity-thrives-in-solar-power-sector.html

Backed in part by Tesla founder Elon Musk, SolarCity is succeeding where many other solar companies have failed. Josh Dzieza reports on the company’s innovative business model.

**russ** · 11-02-2014, 09:53 AM

Kevin - Bigger names get involved with stuff they know nothing about - for example Google - they have dabbled in many things outside of search and come up with zip to date.

Be as impressed as you want - until they have a product to show it is vapor ware.

**kwilcox** · 11-02-2014, 11:07 AM

I wouldn't say that Tesla "knows nothing about" energy storage Russ.

Liquid Metal batteries? More voodoo? or perhaps part of a bigger picture...

Liquid Metal batteries? More voodoo? or perhaps part of a bigger picture...

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