12 volt, 10000 watt battery required

Sunking where you at?

it was a long day and I can't put 2+2 together- how 10,000 in the thread title relates to any of this as it is simply scary, 1kA?

In any case please note watt is a unit of power. When that power produced/consumed over some time it is called energy- the longer the greater: E = P x Time E is consequently measured in Watt x hrs. Now if you could clean up your requirements having this in mind you might get responses from some tired people too .

No, you don't need "extra heavy duty batteries." You just need to use the batteries per the manufacturer's specs.
Whatever you do you are going to quickly destroy your pack - so I'd go as cheap as possible. You will then learn more about battery systems and be less likely to destroy the next pack. Trojan T105's are about the cheapest entry level battery out there.

"10,000 watt battery" doesn't mean much. A single T105 will put out close to 10,000 watts, at least for a few seconds - as a few unfortunate people with uninsulated tools have discovered.

Did you mean "10,000 watt hour battery?" That's 16 T-105's which will run you about $2000 (2 strings of 8 each, about 1000 lbs.) There's no way that makes sense at 12 volts, though, so budget another ~$800 for new inverter/AC charger/charge controller.

For 1200 watts of solar, you are going to need at least 8 T-105's, which makes a nice 48 volt string. That will run your 500 watt AC for about 10 hours (to 50% discharge.) Then you will have to shut down until the next sunny morning.

Will this conversion run
on the road much (needs lighter weight Li-Po-4 batteries)
or
be parked mostly (flooded lead acid batteries) ?

i suppose i have been looking at it wrong, but i assumed since the 105re specs availability of 1500 watts, i would be able to run them down all the way, and get 12000 watts out of 8 of them.... though i realise i shouldnt.... so i figured id have about 500 watts for say 12 hours, more conservatively say 6 in an evening... which should put me at 25-35% down.... before i have to get back to charging them up somehow.

lipo is nice for th weight. are they worth the investment, will they go 10 years? it remains to be seen... this truck can weigh up to 20000 lbs though. (12000 empty)so i can handle the lead, if need be. i will drive, but, realistically i will be parked alot more.

facts are, i have had many years with virtually no money, so spending a fortune on batteries.... its crazy really..... im trying to be more realistic, thinking of times where i had nothing. i can make it by on virtually nothing, but, it makes for an impossible life.... cant live in the world when you wake up at 10 am, and, its 110 degrees in your RV, and, youre on the side of some road. so, im hoping this "survival vehicle" allows me to shower, and, go into the world from a more normal standpoint. because my family is like satan, and, nobody loves me. so i need this truck to allow me to keep my head up.

my goals are to be able to handle my lights and TV and all.... and be able to take the edge off the hot, by running the AC a bit.... even 20 mins of running it will help tons.. oh, and also to run my 60 watt reefer.... yes i bought a 900 dollars refridgerator. it should run for 20 mins out of 60 mins, and, it should take 60 watts during those times.... still not sure if i should run it DC, or, use the AC option while running it? so many questions !!

so, thats realistically what im seeking. its got me wondering if i should just go with maybe 6 batteries instead? use them a bit harder, because calendar life is ticking, anyhow? or go with 10, and, say screw it??? im not sure, really. should i get the black box us batteries, for 116 apiece? should i get the 105re? normal 105s? forklift batts?? used ones, or new? should i run AGM? i just dont know.


yes, i have 1200 watts solar, but, my controller is 60 amp, good for 800 watts. so my hope is that i will have 800 watts available, alot more of the time!

i know everyone says use 48 volt, but, then i need to redo my charging system, i need to sell my inverter/charger. all for the sake of not running some fat wires, 5.5 feet? oh and id also have to sell my small 600 watt inverter, as well. to get 48 volt for a one off RV? it makes no good sense, from a realistic standpoint. this is an RV, not a standalone off grid system.

thanks for the input. i also plan on using the auto gen start, to make a 50cc motor with a car muffler turn a 12 volt alternator, because of the fuel efficiency. im hoping i wont need to build this contraption, but, i likely will have to.... as we all know, the sun doesnt come out everyday.... but this later on, down the road. for now, i have a 5000 watt generator avaialbe, should my batts get really low.

thanks for the feedback, every little piece counts!

If you are not in terrible rush and not too far into expenses could you please list:

- equipment you currently have with important specs (voltage, current, capacity, etc) so some of us won't have to scout Net for those?

- your current loads in terms of watts, required run time per day, voltage required, AC or DC

- your future loads wish list if you want to expand them.

this would yield much more concrete responses

OK, you are confusing watts and watt-hours. Watts are power, watt-hours are energy. The 105RE has about 1200 watt-HOURS of energy at your discharge rates.
No. No offense but at your level of experience you'll destroy them within a few weeks. Like I said, go cheap so your loss isn't so great.
If you still have virtually no money you're probably not going to be able to afford this; batteries are pretty expensive.
You will need 8 to get to 48 volts. Do NOT parallel a bunch of batteries; it doesn't work well.
No, for the sake of having a cheaper, longer lasting battery system. Your other alternative is to stay a 12 volts with much larger batteries (~1000ah) which will be more expensive. For example, a L16RE-2V bank will cost you about $2100.

So do you spend $2100 on expensive batteries that you will quickly damage/destroy, or spend $1000 on a cheaper bank and $800 on new inverters? Because at the end of both exercises you will have to replace the batteries - but in the second case, the $600 you spent was not wasted.

OK. If you've got the money, go for the more expensive 12V battery. One good thing there is you can do most of your charging from the alternator.

4,000 Watt-Hours consumed / day = 500 Watt A/C Unit x 24 Hours x 33% On-Time
4,800 Watt-Hours generated / day = 1,200 Watt PV x 4 Hours Equiv Sun / day

Your daily PV Generation is just barely enough to supply your House Loads and recharge your battery bank.
One cloudy day and you will need to turn off the A/C until your battery bank is RECHARGED.

Do you already have a Pure Sine Wave Inverter to support the A/C Unit ?

So, from sunrise to sunset ...
50% of the PV Power generated will be consumed by the House Loads and
50% of the PV Power generated can be used to recharge the batteries, as needed.

A 4,000 Watt-Hour RATED battery bank will run the A/C for 12 hours at night and discharge down to 50% remaining = won't last long.
4,000 Watt-Hours / 12 Volts = 333 AH @ 12 Volt Battery Bank ( not recommended )

A 6,000 Watt-Hour RATED battery bank will run the A/C for 12 hours at night and discharge down to 66% remaining = many years?
6,000 Watt-Hours / 12 Volts = 500AH @ 12 Volt Battery Bank ( minimum size )

2 @ Trojan IND9-6V 464 AH in series = 12 Volt FLA Bank at 440 lbs.
15 " L x 10" W x 23" H (each) should fit inside your 27" Height restriction

http://www.trojanbattery.com/product...ine-flooded-2/

You have 0 Days of autonomy - meaning you need Sun every day, all day, to run the A/C and recharge the batteries during day and run A/C at night.
You have barely enough PV Power to run your House Loads and recharge your battery bank or NOT.

Much better chance of this working, if you raise the temperature of the A/C thermostat to operate only 25% ON-TIME or less.

I smell dead burnt batteries and one very frustrated and pissed off user once he learns he cannot do what he wants. Not even going to bother with this as it would be a waste of my time.

Thanks for the insight!

I want to be able to use the AC,but it's not going to be all the time, just sometimes, to take the edge off being sooooo hot. I have undercarriage (coolest)air coming in at a high rate, running through a filter, and also some vanair vents on the roof, but sometimes you just need a little AC, you know? I want to make sure I have enough capability in the batteries, as to draw 800 watts when needed (tv on , also ac cycling,plus misc) . I don't want the voltage to sag to death. I don't know if 800 watts is a massive draw, for 500 or so pounds of lead? That has me wondering if the lithium battery would be better? I'm trying to avoid being SOL on my "run the AC" plan...


I already have a Morningstar 60 amp mppt. Also 1200 watts Canadian solar 30 year panels. (It covers the whole roof almost, otherwise I propose to suspend shade cloth across the rest of the entire roof, including over a "skylight" I'm proposing, which is to be my only "window" in the whole RV box). I also have an aims 3000 watt, ul listed pure sine inverter, it draws 25 watts on energy saver, 50 other wise. Also aims 600 watts pure sine, as it draws like ten watts or less.... This one will be ON all the time, while the 3000 watt is only for my air compressor, and my AC unit, and maybe blender and coffee maker. ( I'm secretly hoping also I could run a 500 watt electric heater , while keeping my batteries still charged, on sunny, yet chilly days). Otherwise I'm heating with propane.

For light, it's 75 watts led in front, 100 on rear.... Yeah it's about as bright as an overcast day inside the truck! I also have rgb light strips, blacklights, and also a dimmable incandescent string, because the led light is always so sterile. All of these are 110 volt.

The idea of the industrial 6 volt Trojans, totaling 440 lbs... or the other idea of the 2 volt Trojans, totaling 720 lbs..... Which to choose? Price is similar. What do we all think?

I have had batteries in RVs, yeah, I know how to kill em,,,, lol. First, they're gonna drink down some water, within a couple weeks... Got to check often. And if I kill them to below 11.6 or so, they're permanently damaged, I realise this. I'm using inverters which turn off at 11.5 or so, so that will help. But really I hope I never see that time; I must keep the volts up on these, never below 11.9 , ever. More like 12.2. the alternator will charge them nicely too, so I could (theoretically)always go for a long drive, or run the gene, should they get too low.

I'm not gonna cook the batteries, lol! Damn, can you really do that??!

Realistically, if I could chill in this thing and rest every few days, and use the AC sometimes, it would be great. Otherwise, it's virtually Impossible to recover from heavy sports exertions, when you have no way to cool off.

I guess I could have, and still could, just use a small gene for the AC, then get maybe 4 gc Batts. I wonder if this would be more wise?? My air compressor is gonna draw 1500 watts when it runs, which won't be terribly often, but it would be nice if my batteries can just handle it, without having to start up a generator.... So that's another motivating factor here, for me.

Any other ideas? Thanks guys

you are grossly overestimating how much power batteries hold, and how much power your air conditioner will consume.

Until you scale back your scheme to something more practical we can't help much. Sure, it will work - for a short while 2-4 hours then the batteries die.. While you have PV panels that exceed the air cond power requirements, if they are not aimed properly, you will never see their full power, UNLESS, you are about to cook the batteries, then they will oblige. Paradoxical for sure.

Brother, I surely don't want this! Are you saying that if I try to draw 800 watts off of 6 -l16 2 volt Trojans, they will not be able to handle the load, and die within nomore than 5 hours? By the math, this should be 4000 watts consumed, and slightly below the 20 hour rate, for these batteries.

And, to cook the batteries??! I honestly don't understand what this means. Overheat from too much amp draw? Please elaborate! If I need to scale it back, and simply use a generator, it's better to know now, than before I drop 2000 on 700 lbs of batteries!!!

I want this guy to be able to take the heat out of the truck, when I wake up late and it's hot as hell in the truck, you know?? ... Maybe have to run it for a half hour maximum. It's not all day everyday. But maybe I will sit there that day, and rest.... And wind up using it for 4 hours out of the 8 remaining daylight hours.... I know I'd be at a deficit, but hope to recover that energy the next day. I know I'd have to not run the AC some days,but id like to be able to cool down, on some days, you know? If the batteries really can't handle more than a few hours @ 800 watts draw, then it's not worth it.

But by the numbers, 1100 ah batteries, should give me availability of about 13000 watt hours. Now,cut this in half, I'm over 6000 wh. Why does this not equal the ability to draw 800 watts for 7 hours plus, on my heavy days?

The batteries salesperson wants to sell me the batteries... Lol, of course he does.... But how is he seeing a way to do this, while none of us here are seeing it? Please please please try to beat some sense into me, if I'm about to waste a fortune!! Thank you all

Here's my rough pass at the numbers.
The PV : battery ratio is good for charging my listed battery pack 22A charge: 200a battery
500w draw seems "ok" at first glance, and the inverter can certainly manage it, but you will find the overall effect with your planned loads will be slow, constant deficit charging, because I have not factored all the losses (about 60%, not counting whatever the PV angle mis-match is)
Mike

--
48V system 1200w PV

500 watts draw

Assume: 8 GC-2 batteries, 6V- 200ah = 48V-200ah (9,600 watt hours or .96Kwh)

1200W @ 54V charging = 22A 10+ for a full charge

Full charge to full empty @ 500W load = 19 hours, half of which is usable, 9.5 hours