Inverter to main-AC-panel , no netmetering

**Mike90250** · 05-11-2021, 03:58 PM

If the Power Company has properly configured their meters, they will be flagged as a Backfeed source, if the inverter is ever mis-configured and does "sell to the Grid" . Then your friend will have to explain what happened and bring their system into compliance.

**GeorgeF** · 05-12-2021, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by Mike90250

If the Power Company has properly configured their meters, they will be flagged as a Backfeed source, if the inverter is ever mis-configured and does "sell to the Grid" . Then your friend will have to explain what happened and bring their system into compliance.

Forgot to mention that the use of this inverter is only ment for backup with ATS and/or loads during peak hours only.

Here we have also PRE-PAID meters and too frequent power outages in the area where I live right now. No selling to the grid with pre-paid meters.

**Ampster** · 05-12-2021, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by GeorgeF

.........
Can someone with grid but no netmetering connect this "hard wired" bi-directional inverter (see pict) to his main-AC-panel? If not why not?

They probably can do anything they want in Indonesia. But why spend the money on an expensive bidirectional inverter when they can use a manual switch to run their home from a less expensive inverter/battery setup. Does Indonesia even know what UL1741 is? Besides that is only relevant for grid tied or AC coupled systems in the USA. Why would you friend want to pay for something like that which is probably irrelevant in Indonesia?

**GeorgeF** · 05-12-2021, 02:18 PM

I understand that you can not connect a cheap chicom mobile inverter with only receptacles to your "grounded" house wiring, even with ATS. You need a UL 1741 (IEC 62109) inverter. Or am I wrong?

Local standards follow IEC here.

Ofcourse you have here also netmetering in big cities and you can buy here almost any advanced hybrid inverters with feedback.

**Ampster** · 05-12-2021, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by GeorgeF

I understand that you can not connect a cheap chicom mobile inverter with only receptacles to your "grounded" house wiring, even with ATS. You need a UL 1741 (IEC 62109) inverter. Or am I wrong?

Local standards follow IEC here.

......

If you knew the answer, why don't you tell your friend to just follow those rules. I doubt anyone here is familiar with Indonesian standards.

**GeorgeF** · 05-13-2021, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by Ampster

If you knew the answer, why don't you tell your friend to just follow those rules. I doubt anyone here is familiar with Indonesian standards.

Ampster, Im not sure that is why I ask.
Let me rephrase the question:

In a house with a (prepaid)grid connection, not possible to sell to the grid, if someone wants to install an ATS system can he install an UL 458 inverter as per above screenprint? Instead of a generator he occasionally wants to use his prepaid-grid to top-up or eq his lead acid FLA bank using the above inverter with built-in AC- charger

As I understood well, mobile PSW inverters with only receptacles are not suitable to connect to "ANY" house-wiring system.

**Ampster** · 05-13-2021, 08:11 AM

My guess is that if your friend has to ask, then he is not able or does not have the skills to do that safely. If you are not sure, do the research with the Indonesion authority having jurisdiction..Regardless of the meter type it is possible to charge batteries from a receptacle or circuit. The manual will tell you the capability of that inverter. If there is no net metering then the inverter has to be cabable of being programmed for zero export.
Ate you asking for a fish or do you want to learn how to fish?

**GeorgeF** · 05-13-2021, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by Ampster

My guess is that if your friend has to ask, then he is not able or does not have the skills to do that safely. If you are not sure, do the research with the Indonesion authority having jurisdiction..Regardless of the meter type it is possible to charge batteries from a receptacle or circuit. The manual will tell you the capability of that inverter. If there is no net metering then the inverter has to be cabable of being programmed for zero export.
Ate you asking for a fish or do you want to learn how to fish?

Is it not possible to ask this question here on this forum which is I think is applicable for a lot of countries, not only Indonesia?

Lets forget local regulations and local or international standards.

What kind of an inverter does someone need if he/she "safely" wants to install an ATS system with a pre-paid grid connection, not possible to "sell" to the grid. So, not only for charging a battery bank but also for AC-loads through the grounded house wiring in case of a poweroutage and/or if he wants to load during peak hours and switch to grid @ sundown,

even if he uses a suitable manual switch , grid to inverter (visa versa) ??

He ofcourse charge his battery bank also with PV.

**Ampster** · 05-13-2021, 09:09 AM

Many hybrid inverters contain ATS. You can find a less expensive solution using a manual transfer switch and an off grid inverter like the one on the first post. There are various standalone ATS available if you want that to be automatic.
NOTE: Thanks to @ Solardreamer for mentioning that the inverter in the first post included an ATS.

**solardreamer** · 05-13-2021, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by GeorgeF

Forgot to mention that the use of this inverter is only ment for backup with ATS and/or loads during peak hours only.

Here we have also PRE-PAID meters and too frequent power outages in the area where I live right now. No selling to the grid with pre-paid meters.

Since the inverter is only used when disconnected from the grid it's basically an off-grid use case. So, the grid meter (net meter or not) is not relevant. The inverter you referenced appears to be a typical off-grid inverter/charger with built-in ATS. If so, there should be no issue to run it in grid priority mode and connect its output via the built-in ATS to the main AC panel and grid to its AC input. Note, tt should be clear that this configuration also means the grid should not be directly connected to the main AC panel and the inverter's built-in ATS must be able to handle the full load of the main AC panel and battery charging when the grid is active. Otherwise, you will need separate ATS and slight different configuration.

**GeorgeF** · 05-13-2021, 02:50 PM

I responded "solardreamer" and the software reports "potential spam unapproved" ...?????

**GeorgeF** · 05-13-2021, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by solardreamer

Since the inverter is only used when disconnected from the grid it's basically an off-grid use case. So, the grid meter (net meter or not) is not relevant. The inverter you referenced appears to be a typical off-grid inverter/charger with built-in ATS. If so, there should be no issue to run it in grid priority mode and connect its output via the built-in ATS to the main AC panel and grid to its AC input. Note, tt should be clear that this configuration also means the grid should not be directly connected to the main AC panel and the inverter's built-in ATS must be able to handle the full load of the main AC panel and battery charging when the grid is active. Otherwise, you will need separate ATS and slight different configuration.

(Let me try again)

Thanks for above replies.

To be clear:

1. You can not use an offgrid PSW inverter with only receptacles and overcurrent protection for an ATS sistem that will power loads through your house wiring. Such inverters like attached pict is designed only to power a load directly from the receptacle(s), thus not connected in "anyway" to your existing AC house-wiring, although the grid is already isolated. Right?

2. You need an offgrid inverter with hard-wired DC input and AC output, with or without built-in AC-charger, to power your loads through your existing AC house wiring, usually only with overLOAD protection and not overCURRENT protection. Correct?

Attached Files

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**solardreamer** · 05-13-2021, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by GeorgeF

(Let me try again)

Thanks for above replies.

To be clear:

1. You can not use an offgrid PSW inverter with only receptacles and overcurrent protection for an ATS sistem that will power loads through your house wiring. Such inverters like attached pict is designed only to power a load directly from the receptacle(s), thus not connected in "anyway" to your existing AC house-wiring, although the grid is already isolated. Right?

2. You need an offgrid inverter with hard-wired DC input and AC output, with or without built-in AC-charger, to power your loads through your existing AC house wiring, usually only with overLOAD protection and not overCURRENT protection. Correct?

I would not use inverter without hard wired connection for the scenario and it should always be connected to main AC panel through an appropriately sized circuit breaker regardless of any protections available in the inverter itself. Depending on the local rules and main AC panel setup, you may need inverter that has either floating or bonded neutral for connection to main AC panel. Best to consult with a local electrician.

**GeorgeF** · 05-13-2021, 04:01 PM

Thanks for your reply solardreamer

Inverter to main-AC-panel , no netmetering

Inverter to main-AC-panel , no netmetering

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