Huge Net Energy Metering Fee Increase ?

**organic farmer** · 11-05-2022, 10:52 AM

In 2015 we got three quotes for grid-tied net-metering installations. But each of them were far higher than a simple off-grid system. I just can't justify paying double the price to be grid-tied.

**SunEagle** · 11-05-2022, 10:59 AM

Unfortunately it looks like the POCO is trying to get back some money from all of the solar energy systems it installed.

Here in Florida I have seen the cost of fuel go up but I am blessed to still pay less then $0.11/kWh for my power which includes everything.

Although that low price makes it very difficult for me to justify a solar installation.

**J.P.M.** · 11-05-2022, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by scrambler

Has anyone in California with PG&E seen a huge increase on their Net Energy Metering Paired Storage fee?
I use to have $11 a month, and this month I was away (Almost no usage all sent to grid) and I got hit with $77.59, Seven times more ??

Just a thought or two: Was it your trueup month ? What was your usage for the billing period compared to other billing periods ?

**scrambler** · 11-05-2022, 12:20 PM

You may be onto something but I am still confused.

Part of the problem is because I have PG&E (transport) combined with MCE for the generation, and I am not sure the true up is synched between the two.

And of course there is no mention of true up on the bill, but I think the PG&E true up is November 1st....

I checked Last year and there was a similar discrepancy on the month of october that was $30 instead of the usual $10, so it does look like it is linked to a true up (end of period)

That said, I understood true up was about the kWh used and produced which in my case should be with MCE, I did not think there was a true up on transport or battery...

Right now the October bill says I have sent a surplus of 3551 kWh to the grid and I have an MCE NEM balance of $363 credit.
And this month I have almost no usage as I am traveling so all the generation went to the grid.

So I dont know what kind of PG&E true up would create a surcharge on Net Energy Metering Paired Storage fee....

I will have to call them I guess, but I am traveling right now....

**Ampster** · 11-05-2022, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by scrambler

Has anyone in California with PG&E seen a huge increase on their Net Energy Metering Paired Storage fee?
I use to have $11 a month, and this month I was away (Almost no usage all sent to grid) and I got hit with $77.59, Seven times more ??

No I am not on paired storage but there was a good summary of the true up process for PG&E on the teslamotorsclub dot com forum..
FWIW, I just got my true up statement with PG&E and Sonoma Clean Energy and also had a small credit balance. The credit with SCP was a little bigger but it just may roll over. I expect to use it this year now that I have a heat pump mini split and a recently installed HPWH. Also using a small induction cooktop for soups and canning.

I also installed my DIY battery storage behind the meter after I got the PTO for the GT solar to avoid the kind of charges I assumed PG&E would try to levy on paired storage.

**scrambler** · 12-10-2022, 06:23 PM

Ok, so I finally got to the Bottom of the True up when you have PG&E (distribution) and MCE (generation)
In case it can help someone, here is what I gathered.
PG&E (for the distribution):

PG&E True up is at the date the NEM became active once PTO was obtained (1^st of November for me)
PG&E applies a flat distribution fee every month (about $11 for me), regardless of how much you actually import from the grid.
At true up, they calculate the true Distribution costs of the electricity you imported during the year (since last true up date), and you pay the difference (in my case an extra $66 on the true up bill)
PG&E provides an extremely detailed 15 page NEM statement every month, yet I could not quite see where that adjustment number came from, so I have to assume they calculated it properly...

MCE (for the generation):

MCE True up is end of March regardless of your PTO, so different from PG&E
MCE calculates two balances (since 1^st of April) every month. Dollars for the cost of the energy, and kWh balance between import and export from the grid.
- Dollar wise, kWh are charged or credited at the same RETAIL prices, they go to the calculation of what is called your “MCE NEM credit balance”.
  - If the balance is Positive ($ of what you sent is less than $ of what you used), it is on your bill to pay.
  - If it is negative ($ of what you sent is more than $ of what you used) it is applied to your NEM credit Balance (credit shown as positive dollars on your balance).
    As a result, you NEM balance can only be Zero or a positive number (credit), as any amount you owe on a specific month has to be paid that month.
  - At true up, any $ NEM balance (credit) is Zeroed out.
- kWh wise, every month it calculates the balance (since April first), of kWh imported from the grid (+) minus kWh exported to the grid (-). This is called “Your cumulative kWh relevant period year to date”. A negative number means you sent more kWh than you used.
  - It is calculated with your last balance plus the Total usage for that month.
  - At true up, any Negative Balance is converted into dollars using 2x the WHOLESALE rate.
    If that amount is over $50 they mail you a check, if is below $50 they credit it on your bill
  - Any Positive balance (you imported more kWh than you exported) is zeroed out.
- Caveat, in my case the true up calculation was only made on the May bill, which caused some confusion on my side…

I hope this can help clarify things for others

**Ampster** · 12-10-2022, 10:04 PM

Thanks, that is helpful. My True Up was in October and I am still trying to figure how Sonoma Clean Power is handling that. Most likely they are consistent with MCE but if it is April I have not had a complete year with them. Currently I have a dollar credit of $396 with SCP but some of that may be the bills I paid after my PTO but before they did the retroactive calculation. I also have 3,100kWhs of credit. I have to figure out a strategy about using that. I do not think I over designed my system and can easily use some of that up charging my EVs. It is definitely a moving target especially with the two different True up dates. I now have heat pumps for heating for my first two months and I am consuming less than last year's consumption. Then I was using resistive room heaters. We are starting to see more rain so my production may be down from last year but we can use the water.

**sabersix** · 12-12-2022, 01:11 PM

Yikes, that is messy. I'm glad I stayed with SDG&E for both distribution and power!

**Ampster** · 12-12-2022, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by sabersix

Yikes, that is messy. I'm glad I stayed with SDG&E for both distribution and power!

I did not mean to imply it was an issue. In my opinion, the benefits of a CCA like SCP, MCE or others far exceed the extra effort needed to understand the billing.

**scrambler** · 12-12-2022, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Ampster

I did not mean to imply it was an issue. In my opinion, the benefits of a CCA like SCP, MCE or others far exceed the extra effort needed to understand the billing.

I agree, I prefer my balance to be done every month so I know where I stand
And MCE pays twice as much for any surplus sent to the grid at the end of the year.

Huge Net Energy Metering Fee Increase ?

Huge Net Energy Metering Fee Increase ?

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