Apsystems DS3-L Tripping due to Grid Frequency

**SunEagle** · 02-01-2023, 07:35 PM

Most of the time the issue is between your sensitive inverter and the POCO. Maybe try to get a software upgrade that will widen the time your inverter sees a change outside the parameters that have been programmed into it.

**oregon_phil** · 02-01-2023, 08:01 PM

read this thread

Apsystems DS3-L not working

**Jefferx** · 02-01-2023, 08:09 PM

Thanks, I've red that thread and had that issue with my original DS3-L inverters I was shipped, these turn on and operate normally in the morning and afternoon, but seem to have an issue mid day. Has anyone experienced anything similar with the DS3-L?

**davidcheok** · 02-01-2023, 08:50 PM

You can adjust the grid profile responses for the entire system but not individual inverters.
Find out the LAN ip address of your ECU and go to that url (on the LAN/Wifi) and it should take you to ECU local server.
You need to know the proper grid profile for your grid.
You can also apply for a DIY account from APS. Check the app.
I suggest you email APS before you change anything. They can adjust the individual parameters from their side for you.

I dont think its a grid frequency issue otherwise all the others would have shut down as well. I think its inverter issue but get APS involved.

Also have you set the proper grid profile for your grid? Make sure its the right profile.

Attached Files

Screenshot 2023-02-02 at 8.59.46 AM.png (161.6 KB, 81 views)

**oregon_phil** · 02-01-2023, 08:52 PM

Just for background.

Do you have shading on some panels? Or is that just a cloud in your data? Low watts with higher voltage indicates shade when compared to the other microinverters.

Vmpp for the panel is 42.72 for NOCT and 44.81 for STD. AP system Mpp range is 28 to 45 Vdc. For my benefit, what happens to mpp tracking when panel voltage equals or exceeds 45Vdc? Can somebody answer this? If it's a non-issue, just tell me to drop it.

As the data shows, panel voltage can exceed 45 Vdc.

This may or may not explain shutdowns. It's just more data. When I was designing my string inverter system, I designed it so the maximum panel string voltage would always be less than Vmpp max to so I wouldn't have to answer the question I posed above.

**Jefferx** · 02-01-2023, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by davidcheok

You can adjust the grid profile responses for the entire system but not individual inverters.
Find out the LAN ip address of your ECU and go to that url (on the LAN/Wifi) and it should take you to ECU local server.
You need to know the proper grid profile for your grid.
You can also apply for a DIY account from APS. Check the app.
I suggest you email APS before you change anything. They can adjust the individual parameters from their side for you.

Thanks David, I currently have the profile set to Rule 21 which should be correct for SDGE. I am considering moving them back to the Default 60 hz profile to see if it makes a difference.

Phil, correct no shading on any of the panels during that window, I can watch the data come in and see the Grid frequency move to 59.7 or 60.2 and then that invert will shut off in the next refresh. When shut off the invert reads 0W / 50/51V from both panels. I'll watch and see if the DC voltage is tied to the shut offs at all. Renvu spec these inverters with the Qcells, so I hope it isn't just a miss match.

Thanks!

**davidcheok** · 02-01-2023, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by Jefferx

Thanks David, I currently have the profile set to Rule 21 which should be correct for SDGE. I am considering moving them back to the Default 60 hz profile to see if it makes a difference.

Phil, correct no shading on any of the panels during that window, I can watch the data come in and see the Grid frequency move to 59.7 or 60.2 and then that invert will shut off in the next refresh. When shut off the invert reads 0W / 50/51V from both panels. I'll watch and see if the DC voltage is tied to the shut offs at all. Renvu spec these inverters with the Qcells, so I hope it isn't just a miss match.

Thanks!

The threshold for frequency trips is usually a couple of hertz. Your variations are within parameters.

DC voltage is tied to power production and rise and fall when production is throttled.

480w/374w is a 1.28 DC/AC ratio and should be fine.

its possible the inverters in question didnt take the grid profile settings. Try reapply the setting and monitor. Should take about 5-10 mins before new settings are transferred via zigbee.

**Jefferx** · 02-01-2023, 10:06 PM

David, I am able to request the inverters to read back their grid profile and they all appear to be correct, I will reload them tomorrow but have attempted that in the past. Because I completed a DIY install I am limited the 1-minute readings I can get from the ECU by using the url below. If they would enable the installer settings I could better see what is going on, but APsystems doesn't seem to want to help...

All but one of the invert trip on a regular basis, but only in the middle of the day. In the morning and afternoon they seem solid. Any chance this could be a Grid Issue? They spin something up during peak loads?

Thanks!

http://192.168.1.12/index.php/realtimedata

**davidcheok** · 02-01-2023, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by Jefferx

David, I am able to request the inverters to read back their grid profile and they all appear to be correct, I will reload them tomorrow but have attempted that in the past. Because I completed a DIY install I am limited the 1-minute readings I can get from the ECU by using the url below. If they would enable the installer settings I could better see what is going on, but APsystems doesn't seem to want to help...

All but one of the invert trip on a regular basis, but only in the middle of the day. In the morning and afternoon they seem solid. Any chance this could be a Grid Issue? They spin something up during peak loads?

Thanks!

http://192.168.1.12/index.php/realtimedata

The fastest reading is still the ECU. Installer accounts do not have faster readings. The service mode on the ECU will give the quickest updates of around 20-30s per update depending on the zigbee communication and non-service mode is every 8 mins to view but every 5 mins inverter updates.

It could be one of the inverters either has a different grid profile or is faulty. I recommend emailing APS.

PS only real difference between installer and non-installer is the ability to log data and having data like DC voltages and currents from each panel. Everything else is more or less the same.

Personally i prefer to use the ECU direct.

Screenshot 2023-02-02 at 10.39.51 AM.png

**davidcheok** · 02-01-2023, 10:48 PM

Screenshot 2022-12-13 at 1.24.05 PM.png Something useful.

Be careful about the zigbee channel settings. Messing those up is a headache. Wouldnt touch those if they are working properly.

**davidcheok** · 02-01-2023, 10:51 PM

Also try download EMA manager and register for a DIY installer account.

**solardreamer** · 02-01-2023, 10:52 PM

It looks more like a volt-watt curtailment behavior as specified by the the CA Rule 21 grid profile. I am pretty sure VW is active at 254V and it may even start at 252V.

**Jefferx** · 02-01-2023, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by solardreamer

It looks more like a volt-watt curtailment behavior as specified by the the CA Rule 21 grid profile. I am pretty sure VW is active at 254V and it may even start at 252V.

Thanks, so this would be expected behavior? Something happens 1-2 shut off and go to 0W and then 5 minutes later they are back on.

Here are the Rule 21 settings from APSystems

Screen Shot 2023-02-01 at 6.57.14 PM.png Screen Shot 2023-02-01 at 6.57.27 PM.png Screen Shot 2023-02-01 at 6.57.36 PM.png

**davidcheok** · 02-01-2023, 11:05 PM

I think the question I would ask myself is how long does the shutdown last for and is this loss within that period worth the hassle and risk of messing with the default/recommended/compulsory settings as per rule 21? If its only 5 mins, I wouldnt bother because you lose a few kW for a few minutes and save the hassle. If its over a few hours then yes, its worth going deeper into.

Apsystems DS3-L Tripping due to Grid Frequency

Apsystems DS3-L Tripping due to Grid Frequency

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment