Thinking of Doubling the Number of Panels on my System

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  • SteinVT
    Junior Member
    • Nov 2023
    • 4

    Thinking of Doubling the Number of Panels on my System

    I originally posted this question on the DIY Solar Power Forum and a member suggested that I cross post here.

    First a little background on my system. I have a ground based array with 32 Adani 365 watt bifacial panels. Each has its own Enphase IQ7-plus micro inverter. I live in Vermont where in the fall and winter have very few sunny days. During a sunny day, the panels will easily max out the inverters, but during the cloudy days not even close.

    My thought was to remove half of the inverters and connect two panels in parallel to drive each inverter. Then install a second ground mount array just like the first to use the removed inverters.

    By doing this I will:
    • Basically double my output of the array anytime the inverters aren't maxed out
    • Since I won't be increasing the max output, no new permitting
    • Won't have to upgrade my circuit panel or provide alternate routing to the grid
    • Can use the existing wire runs from the array(s) to the circuit panel
    The spec on the inverters says "Commonly used module pairings 235-440w +" with a note that says "No enforced DC/AC ratio". So I don't think it would hurt the inverters.

    I pulled a couple of days worth data of the Enphase app. Doubling the panel input produced a 41% increase on November 24th. The micro inverters were limiting output. The orange represents the added power.


    Nov 24 production.JPG



    However if you look at the day before output goes up 90%.

    Nov 23 production.JPG

    I am working with Enphase customer support to try and get the 15 minute data. They gave me data for a couple of days, hopefully they can get me a year's worth.

    So is this a crazy idea?

    Thanks - Mark
  • SunEagle
    Super Moderator
    • Oct 2012
    • 15126

    #2
    I understand this is a DIY install but I wonder what your POCO agrees to considering the amount of kw you have installed

    Comment

    • bcroe
      Solar Fanatic
      • Jan 2012
      • 5203

      #3
      A decade ago I did exactly that, coupling twice as many panels
      to the original permitted inverters. Perhaps simpler here since I
      use string inverters. Since systems are rated by AC capacity
      connected to the grid, this does not effect my net metering contract.

      To avoid overloading the inverters, the panel orientation was split
      between mostly east and mostly west. Instead of overloading the
      inverters at solar noon, output is leveled over a longer time. So
      peak power is unchanged, but energy collection per day is increased.

      Under clouds, the light is dispersed, panel alignment is not critical.
      It appears my cloudy day output is roughly doubled. With some
      tuning, the inverters are kept just at clipping up to 8 hours on sunny
      days, for most months of the year. Bruce Roe

      NScurve.jpg

      Comment

      • oregon_phil
        Solar Fanatic
        • Jan 2019
        • 497

        #4
        Originally posted by SteinVT
        I originally posted this question on the DIY Solar Power Forum and a member suggested that I cross post here.

        First a little background on my system. I have a ground based array with 32 Adani 365 watt bifacial panels. Each has its own Enphase IQ7-plus micro inverter. I live in Vermont where in the fall and winter have very few sunny days. During a sunny day, the panels will easily max out the inverters, but during the cloudy days not even close.

        My thought was to remove half of the inverters and connect two panels in parallel to drive each inverter. Then install a second ground mount array just like the first to use the removed inverters.

        By doing this I will:
        • Basically double my output of the array anytime the inverters aren't maxed out
        • Since I won't be increasing the max output, no new permitting
        • Won't have to upgrade my circuit panel or provide alternate routing to the grid
        • Can use the existing wire runs from the array(s) to the circuit panel
        The spec on the inverters says "Commonly used module pairings 235-440w +" with a note that says "No enforced DC/AC ratio". So I don't think it would hurt the inverters.

        I pulled a couple of days worth data of the Enphase app. Doubling the panel input produced a 41% increase on November 24th. The micro inverters were limiting output. The orange represents the added power.


        Nov 24 production.JPG



        However if you look at the day before output goes up 90%.

        Nov 23 production.JPG

        I am working with Enphase customer support to try and get the 15 minute data. They gave me data for a couple of days, hopefully they can get me a year's worth.

        So is this a crazy idea?

        Thanks - Mark
        On the other forum, you seem pretty convinced the Enphase inverter will limit maximum current. Bruce intentionally keeps array current under inverter max current by using east west orientation.

        I assume you are collecting enphase data from two paralleled panels into one inverter for the data listed above. This is November and you aren't getting anything close to Impp. Try the same experiment in June.

        Dealing with min max and other specs most of my professional career, in my experience these are limits you want to stay away from, not limits that the devices will enforce. I.e. if you want a current limiting device, you buy a current limiting device not a current meter.

        Comment

        • Rade
          Solar Fanatic
          • Aug 2023
          • 106

          #5
          Side bar question to those considerably more in the know than me: Inverter sizing. Is an inverter PHYSICALLY sized to handle x-number of panels/kW or LOGICALLY sized through the configuration of the OS? ...or both?

          Just asking for my own edification. I had been contemplating if I would need / could get one more array of 4 panels on an open, Western facing roof line.
          Rade Radosevich-Slay
          Tiverton, RI

          Comment

          • oregon_phil
            Solar Fanatic
            • Jan 2019
            • 497

            #6
            SteinVT , I see on the other forum you built your ground mount system yourself. Nice job. I wish I had the room to do such a system.

            I did a little more research into Enphase 7 microinverters and found that Enphase expects the installer to ensure microinverter voltage and current maximum values are not exceeded through panel selection/design. I believe two panels on the same plane connected to one microinverter would violate the Enphase Installation and Operation Manual guidelines (15 amps max DC input).
            Attached Files

            Comment

            • SteinVT
              Junior Member
              • Nov 2023
              • 4

              #7
              The member that suggested I post here was right on. Thanks everyone for their comments.

              I will try and respond to everyone:

              SunEagle - I don't think that would have violated any agreement as I wouldn't every exceed the permitted levels. If I remember correctly it was based on inverters.

              Bruce - You did exactly what I was thinking. If I were to put the second array, I was going to split it east-west for the same reasons. Your string inverters are the difference.

              Oregon_Phil - Just to clarify, the data I presented was an excel simulation. I haven't changed any of my hardware. Thank you so much for pointing out the maximum DC current rating in the manual, I missed that. That's enough for me to drop this project.

              Rade - I hope folks more knowledgeable then me will answer, but my guess it is both. The control loops will limit the power going through the system, but the design of the board must be sized to handle the current.

              Bottom line, I am going to drop this project. I think it probably would work fine on the low light days, but could be a problem when the sun comes out. And then I think it could go bad fast and would definitely void any warranty on the inverters.

              Thanks again to all that answered - Mark

              Comment

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