New SE setup being installed, Really need help with TOU and SE Batteries concerns.

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  • J.P.M.
    Solar Fanatic
    • Aug 2013
    • 14939

    #16
    Seems like the OP made one post and skedaddled.

    Comment

    • toofargone
      Junior Member
      • Aug 2022
      • 17

      #17
      Originally posted by albert436

      Hey toofar, did you ever get the issue resolved ?
      No. The battery still discharges quickly, spilling over and out to the grid after supplying the electricity we're using at the time. My installer cut me off from fiddling with the settings, since it's a drain on his time. He did make a valiant effort to make me happy. I decided to not pursue getting admin rights and live with it for now. I'd prefer to supply my own power as much as possible, even if it is all credits in/credits out. PGE's billing and true up documentation is not very clear. And who knows what changes they'll make in the future.

      SolarEdge did give system owners the ability to set the battery reserve (beyond a temporary 3 day adjustment)...that was a very nice development. It gave me peace of mind during the storms we had in NoCal last month. The weather guard thing seems pretty gimmicky but it did kick on during the storms. Not 100% sure, but I think the system charged the battery from the grid when weather guard kicked on.

      Comment

      • albert436
        Solar Fanatic
        • Jan 2014
        • 356

        #18
        Originally posted by toofargone

        No. The battery still discharges quickly, spilling over and out to the grid after supplying the electricity we're using at the time. My installer cut me off from fiddling with the settings, since it's a drain on his time. He did make a valiant effort to make me happy. I decided to not pursue getting admin rights and live with it for now. I'd prefer to supply my own power as much as possible, even if it is all credits in/credits out. PGE's billing and true up documentation is not very clear. And who knows what changes they'll make in the future.

        SolarEdge did give system owners the ability to set the battery reserve (beyond a temporary 3 day adjustment)...that was a very nice development. It gave me peace of mind during the storms we had in NoCal last month. The weather guard thing seems pretty gimmicky but it did kick on during the storms. Not 100% sure, but I think the system charged the battery from the grid when weather guard kicked on.
        That seems like not good to have your battery spilling out to the grid. I can't understand how they would think that is OK.

        I get that you probably have more concern for power outages than I have in San Diego, though it has happened here for sure.

        I think there is a thing with SDGE that if you sell solar back to the grid, then you are not allowed to charge your battery from the grid, I seem to remember seeing that somewhere. But maybe PGE is different.

        Do you think the inverter itself might be faulty? I can remember back in the day when I would beat my head against a wall when something on my computer wasn't working, only to have a computer guy tell me later something like there was probably a corrupt file and a reinstall was needed, or that there was a piece of hardware causing problems. So just wondering . . .

        Thanks for your reply.

        Comment

        • MattSl
          Junior Member
          • Jun 2021
          • 27

          #19
          Just curious on your install, you said (30) 400w panels, which at full sun equals 12,000w. With a 10k inverter, you're looking at 120% running rate. I know some inverters are designed to run over a bit. I'm not an expert in this by any means, but maybe you might want to consider two smaller inverters that add up to over 12k watts.

          I'm sure I'll get my hand slapped about something I don't fully understand here, so let the trout slapping begin (ref 1990's IRC trivia).

          Comment

          • J.P.M.
            Solar Fanatic
            • Aug 2013
            • 14939

            #20
            Originally posted by MattSl
            Just curious on your install, you said (30) 400w panels, which at full sun equals 12,000w. With a 10k inverter, you're looking at 120% running rate. I know some inverters are designed to run over a bit. I'm not an expert in this by any means, but maybe you might want to consider two smaller inverters that add up to over 12k watts.

            I'm sure I'll get my hand slapped about something I don't fully understand here, so let the trout slapping begin (ref 1990's IRC trivia).
            Usually and under most common max. irradiance conditions (not, for example, at high altitude sites and very cold conditions for example), a reasonably well designed and sited, mostly shade free system will produce about and approximately 0.84 to maybe 0.88 of its STC rating.
            10kW output from a 12 kW STC array = 0.833. So, if the thing clips, it won't be too often, if at all, depending on array orientation and site conditions.
            Good system design will account for site conditions.
            I've got a well designed and mostly shade free array with good orientation in zip 92026 with STC a rating of 5.232 STC kW.
            The max. sustained 5 minute output I've ever observed (or recorded) from that array in 9.5 years of operation under clear skies is 4.732 kW out of the inverter. That was on a cold, clear April day when the array was < 1 year old with solar incidence angle on the array close to normal, the quasi-steady state P.O.A. irradiance was ~ 1,015 W/M^2 and the array had no shade on it.

            Also, some inverters can exceed their rated output.
            Last edited by J.P.M.; 02-22-2023, 01:56 PM.

            Comment

            • Ampster
              Solar Fanatic
              • Jun 2017
              • 3650

              #21
              Originally posted by albert436

              .......
              I think there is a thing with SDGE that if you sell solar back to the grid, then you are not allowed to charge your battery from the grid, I seem to remember seeing that somewhere. But maybe PGE is different.
              ........
              That requirement is typically part of the IRS requirement for the Investment Tax Credit..I am with PG&E and once the power goes through their meter I am free to use that power any way I see fit.
              9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012

              Comment

              • Ampster
                Solar Fanatic
                • Jun 2017
                • 3650

                #22
                Originally posted by MattSl
                ......... With a 10k inverter, you're looking at 120% running rate. I know some inverters are designed to run over a bit. I'm not an expert in this by any means, but maybe you might want to consider two smaller inverters that add up to over 12k watts.

                ......
                A DC to AC ratio of 1.20 to 1 is not out of the ordinary. The panels would rarely produce 12,000 Watts and the inverter maximum will be 10,000 Watts. Without knowing more about the specifics of the site there may have been other factors driving that design decision. It is a waste of inverter capacity to match inverter size to panel size.
                Last edited by Ampster; 02-24-2023, 02:20 PM.
                9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012

                Comment

                • Srrndhound
                  Member
                  • Sep 2022
                  • 46

                  #23
                  Originally posted by MattSl
                  Just curious on your install, you said (30) 400w panels, which at full sun equals 12,000w. With a 10k inverter, you're looking at 120% running rate. I know some inverters are designed to run over a bit. I'm not an expert in this by any means, but maybe you might want to consider two smaller inverters that add up to over 12k watts.
                  The data sheet for the SE 10 kW inverter shows that the max AC output is 10 kW, while the max DC (PV) input is 22 kW. From that it would appear there's plenty of margin for 12 kW of panels.
                  SolarEdge 12.3kWp grid-tie, 19.4kWh, SW Idaho

                  Comment

                  • OCJ
                    Member
                    • Aug 2022
                    • 64

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Ampster

                    That requirement is typically part of the IRS requirement for the Investment Tax Credit..I am with PG&E and once the power goes through their meter I am free to use that power any way I see fit.
                    On a side note, "Grid Charging" in my Tesla app just recently became enabled on SDG&E. I'm wondering if this is a part of the new IRA changes. I haven't seen definitive guidance yet that residential BESS systems purchased within the last 5 years under the ITC can now charge from the grid without running afoul of the original 5 year rule, but I will be looking into it now that I have that little switch available.

                    So now in theory should I find myself short of annual credits, I can recharge my battery during weekdays by purchasing kWhs nightly at Super Off-Peak rates instead of waiting for Off-Peak recharging.

                    Also in theory a ~30 kWh standalone LFP BESS becomes viable. Run your house off battery during the day it to offset all on-peak and some off-peak, then recharge at super off-peak rates. If your house and equipment is efficient enough you can go all the way from 6am to midnight even in summer. Then recharge BESS and EV midnight to 6am.

                    Comment

                    • darkskies
                      Member
                      • Nov 2022
                      • 65

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Srrndhound
                      The data sheet for the SE 10 kW inverter shows that the max AC output is 10 kW, while the max DC (PV) input is 22 kW. From that it would appear there's plenty of margin for 12 kW of panels.
                      From what I understand, you can oversubscribe up to 200% with SE. My system has 7.6kW inverter, 11.9kW of panels, and 16kwh battery. I will often see "production" peaking to well over 7.6kW at this time of year (if the sun is out ), with up to 7.6kW going to load and grid, and the rest going to charge the battery, which is DC. My system is set for max self consumption.

                      Comment

                      • albert436
                        Solar Fanatic
                        • Jan 2014
                        • 356

                        #26
                        Originally posted by OCJ

                        On a side note, "Grid Charging" in my Tesla app just recently became enabled on SDG&E. I'm wondering if this is a part of the new IRA changes. I haven't seen definitive guidance yet that residential BESS systems purchased within the last 5 years under the ITC can now charge from the grid without running afoul of the original 5 year rule, but I will be looking into it now that I have that little switch available.

                        So now in theory should I find myself short of annual credits, I can recharge my battery during weekdays by purchasing kWhs nightly at Super Off-Peak rates instead of waiting for Off-Peak recharging.

                        Also in theory a ~30 kWh standalone LFP BESS becomes viable. Run your house off battery during the day it to offset all on-peak and some off-peak, then recharge at super off-peak rates. If your house and equipment is efficient enough you can go all the way from 6am to midnight even in summer. Then recharge BESS and EV midnight to 6am.
                        Interesting subject. I am also with SDGE but am just now getting ready to do solar, likely without a battery just now. I am not familiar with BESS and my system will be in the range of 6.4 to 8Kw.

                        Would you be able to give me a few sentences to explain what it is, without going to too much trouble? The original 5 years rule, does that mean that after 5 years you could charge your battery at super off peak? Will the IRS not come back at you after that period?

                        Yeah dumb noob questions, thank for your help though.

                        Comment

                        • Ampster
                          Solar Fanatic
                          • Jun 2017
                          • 3650

                          #27
                          Originally posted by OCJ

                          On a side note, "Grid Charging" in my Tesla app just recently became enabled on SDG&E. I'm wondering if this is a part of the new IRA changes. I haven't seen definitive guidance yet that residential BESS systems purchased within the last 5 years under the ITC can now charge from the grid without running afoul of the original 5 year rule, but I will be looking into it now that I have that little switch available.
                          Sometimes grid charging on Tesla Powerwalls gets enabled because of weather events. Does this appear to be permanent?
                          EDIT: I checked another forum and it does appear to be permanent.
                          Last edited by Ampster; 02-26-2023, 12:39 PM.
                          9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012

                          Comment

                          • OCJ
                            Member
                            • Aug 2022
                            • 64

                            #28
                            Originally posted by albert436

                            Interesting subject. I am also with SDGE but am just now getting ready to do solar, likely without a battery just now. I am not familiar with BESS and my system will be in the range of 6.4 to 8Kw.

                            Would you be able to give me a few sentences to explain what it is, without going to too much trouble? The original 5 years rule, does that mean that after 5 years you could charge your battery at super off peak? Will the IRS not come back at you after that period?

                            Yeah dumb noob questions, thank for your help though.

                            That's the essence of it!

                            Comment

                            • OCJ
                              Member
                              • Aug 2022
                              • 64

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Ampster

                              Sometimes grid charging on Tesla Powerwalls gets enabled because of weather events. Does this appear to be permanent?
                              EDIT: I checked another forum and it does appear to be permanent.
                              Yes, appears to be permanent.

                              Comment

                              • MattSl
                                Junior Member
                                • Jun 2021
                                • 27

                                #30
                                No, weather events (called 'Storm Watch') is a selectable option in the Tesla app. I personally have mine turned off.

                                Comment

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