Watts vs Volt-Amps - huh ??

You may love the idea now, but will hate it once you understand the cost. Anything you take off-grid will cost you 10 times or more for power the rest of your life. Used in a MIL suite hundreds of times more because you are not utilizing the power daily and potential generated energy is wasted. Just think of replacing Thousand$ of dollar$ worth of batteries every few years for something you do not use every day for something the Electric Company would only charge you a $5 bill in 5 years.

Hi Julie, good luck with your venture into solar energy and off-grid applications. I believe that there is still a long long way to go until the technology develops its full potential but that shouldn't stop people trying it. I have a grid tie and an off-grid setup, both have their pros and cons and both are useful as a learning tool especially for our kids.
History indicates that the more people get into a concept the more developers and researchers will tackle and eventually solve the associated issues.
In the case of off grid, the main issue is energy storage, you can see evidence of that by reading the posts on Lithium battery storage and other types of battery storage. There are many many pages of discussion.

I think we all know that fossil fuels will not be around forever and that they are a major concern for the environment, therefore alternative forms of energy will need to be further developed as well as changes to the way we all 'use' (read waste) our power.
The way I think about it sometimes is like this, if someone said to me that they were going to build a solar/wind farm 20km away from me or a coal fired power station which one would I be more concerned about as far as fouling the air with chemicals? If I had the choice which one would I vote for?
I Look forward to further discussions.
Jon

With that statement you loose any environmental argument immediately.

If fossil fuel runs out like you say, the problem solves itself, there is no problem to solve.

Even your great great grand kids will be using fossil fuels so don't worry about them running out any time soon.

If I had my choice of a power generating station close to me I would go with Nuclear. While I would love to have a solar farm providing me power I know that I need something else to give me power through the night. Solar and wind are not going to do that. You will always need some form of base power generating plant and they will probably be some form of fossil fuel burning type. Either that or you will have to turn in early since there won't be any power to run all of your electronic entertainment equipment.

This type of message is a great indication of the old fashioned thinking that is around regarding power usage and storage. I'm not saying it is wrong or right, its just how we think. Before the wheel was invented I am sure the troglodytes were saying there will never be a better way to move around than by foot!
I am sure that the Japanese people that recently suffered from radioactive poisoning and lost their villages, along with the people that suffered from Chernobyl or the Long Island incident would think you are totally crazy having a nuclear power plant in your back yard. Or maybe you do not read the news?
By the way does the wind stop in the night time where you live?
I do believe that in the next 20 years or so we will have much more improved methods of storing power and using power, these developments will be fought by the industries that use fossil fuel to produce electricity and the fossil fuel advocates on this site but I am confident there will be technological breakthroughs that change our ways of life.
Here's to the optimists among us!!
Jon

When someone commented "I wish" or "I am sure" in an engineering discussion an old boss of mine usually to them to crap in one hand and wish in the other - come back and tell us which fills up first.

Many are working on energy storage and have been for many years - when will the break through come? Who knows but it will be done using science and engineering - not feel good hoping.

And my snappy comeback is "5, 12, 13". (Which makes a reasonable choice for roof pitch for many purposes.)
The ancient Egyptians knew very well about small-integer right triangles, even if they did not have the benefit of help from Pythagoras.

Classic Peanuts cartoon. Charlie Brown is at the bus stop complaining that he had a math test that day and he had been up all night worrying and praying over it.
Linus, I believe, said "Charlie Brown, worrying and praying should not be confused with studying."

I saw that one and loved it!

Beany - I suggest you drop the topic that you know nothing about.

There are hundreds of millions that go into research on storage yearly - it ain't easy.

If you followed the topic on the net you would know this - and I don't mean on silly green sites either.

Why are you suggesting that I drop out of this conversation? I am on this site to contribute and learn and that is what I intend to do. I have seen how you attack other people, hiding behind the safety of your moderator status. I could count on one hand the positive contributions you have made to this site. Whilst others who are critical of my comments usually try to educate me and others like me so that we learn along the way. If this site was totally made up of experts talking to experts what use would it be to the vast majority of people who have a thirst for knowledge and are eager to participate in the solar panel talk?
After all that is what this site is about isn't it?

I am here to learn and I love nothing better than to be taught about a subject that I know very little about.
I have a GT and an OG system on two of my properties. I know that the OG system is a money burner but at least it has given me first hand experience as to the pitfalls of that type of system and some information to share. Can you say the same?

Nope - I am not stupid. Where I live there are no subsidies for solar so virtually no PV even though the electric rates are about 20 cents US - it is not cost effective without the subsidies.

Solar water heaters are common here - they are quite cost effective.

Maybe not drop out of the conversation just tone down your attitude that anyone that does not believe in what you believe in is old fashion or gets a profit from the fossil fuel industry.

I have been working with solar pv systems since the mid 70's. I truly believe in this technology along with finding the holey grail of batteries. I also know that people who think renewable energy sources will provide us with 100% of our needs do not know the rest of the story. Being in the electrical engineering and power distribution field for 40 years I believe I have learned a few things that can and can't happen with our current technology.

So instead of attacking others or using fear tactics with reference to radioactivity and those nasty fossil fuel pollutants try to keep an open mind while we help you learn more about this technology. I am on your side and want this technology to work but I am also pragmatic and realize that wishing for something to happen and learning how to make it happen are two different things.

Common tactic of the uninformed. They are afraid of facts and do not want to know about them.

For example there is no reason to store spent fuel rods. The USA is the only country that does that. Liberals and anti-nukes do not want the public to know that.

I would go further and just say that a lot of people are just afraid without knowing the facts.

Then there are those unscrupulous people that take advantage of that fear and convince the rest of the people that to get rid of the "monster under the bed" they need to eliminate everything that creates this monster even though there is no hard evidence of any link between the two.

Don't get me started on the rising ocean level fear process again. I could probably get to me rich selling inner tubes and rafts.